massagetrade
Joined Thu 02/22/07
Posts: 3113
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| Topic: {{{ <<< God's Pharmacy >>> }}} |
Fri 07/18/08 08:16 PM |
Spider,
It seems to me that you speak as if advocating something is the same as trying to force others |
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massagetrade
Joined Thu 02/22/07
Posts: 3113
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| Topic: {{{ <<< God's Pharmacy >>> }}} |
Fri 07/18/08 08:13 PM |
Red,
Thinking about 'God' helps many people broaden their perspective, and to see beyond themselves. Practicing some of the virtues advocated by religious preachers and such actually helps some people become 'better people' in other ways.
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The issues raised here go beyond religious affiliation, race, nationality. |
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massagetrade
Joined Thu 02/22/07
Posts: 3113
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massagetrade
Joined Thu 02/22/07
Posts: 3113
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| Topic: New smartphone / Freerunner / OpenMoko |
Thu 07/03/08 02:49 PM |
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From: http://www.efluxmedia.com/news_OpenMoko_Prepares_The_Launch_Of_Its_New_FreeRunner_Smartphone_19861.html
OpenMoko Prepares The Launch Of Its New FreeRunner Smartphone
OpenMoko announced the upcoming release of its new Linux-based FreeRunner mobile phone. The event will take place tomorrow on July 4 and its shipping will begin on July 7. The highly anticipated device will also be available in several markets in India and Europe.
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From:
http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/07/post-1.html
The FreeRunner will come in two versions at first: 850MHz or 900 MHz Tri-band GSM. It packs in 128MB WSDRAM and 256MB NAND of flash memory, and includes a 2.8-inch VGA touch screen (at 480 x 640), Wi-Fi at 802.1 1b/g, AGPS, and GPRS 2.5G. And it of course has Bluetooth 2.0 connectivity, plus a couple of 3-axis motion sensors.
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Anyone out there going to buy one?
I hope to, this fall.
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massagetrade
Joined Thu 02/22/07
Posts: 3113
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| Topic: I Want To Become A Computer Engineer |
Thu 07/03/08 02:03 PM |
Don't let the difficulties you've had with math dissuade you! Take a closer look at the -kinds- of math you will need to be a CE. You might find that 'math applied to CE problems' far more interesting to you than the math you've taken so far. Yes, you will need to take and pass a ton of more general math classes to get your degree, but your performances in those classes does not tie directly to your professional performance, after you graduate.
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massagetrade
Joined Thu 02/22/07
Posts: 3113
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massagetrade
Joined Thu 02/22/07
Posts: 3113
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| Topic: Is Atheism a religion? |
Thu 07/03/08 12:45 PM |
Red wrote:
QUOTE:
So NOW, you have indicated that there are areas in which you think or see that atheists hold enough similar beliefs and values to be considered a religion, but you have not given us an accounting of what those might be.
Thanks for giving me the opportunity to clarify:
I absolutely DO NOT consider atheism to be a religion, and I think it is WRONG to suggest that atheism is a religion. No matter how 'religious' some atheists may be, it will never make atheism itself a religion. Even if, 50 years from now, there are Dawkinite churches in which people sing praise to the enlightened "Richard Dawkins", and hold the writings of Dawkins to be 'absolute truth', and consider Creationism blasphemy, and go out on street corners in pink sheets dancing and trying to make converts....it would STILL not make atheism a religion. It would just mean that -some- atheists formed the requisite social arrangement to be considered a religion.
Consider this:
The ONLY quality -needed- to be an atheist is (following a definition given by another earlier in this thread) is -the lack of positive belief in a God-. (The fact that many atheists also have a positive DISbelief in a God doesn't change this - since they also lack a positive belief in a God. (Of course, 'God' is undefined here, but lets keep this simple!) )
Making any kind of assumptions about the -other- beliefs of all the individuals that meet this criteria is just wrong. Some atheists are rationalists, some are not. Some 'believe in evolution', some do not. Some generally look to beliefs of modern scientists for their own beliefs, some do not. Some make a big deal about certain virtues or values, some do not. Some atheists have rejected one idea of God; some have rejected many; some may simply not care; some (living in a jungle island somewhere?) may have not been exposed to the idea of God.
Being 'atheist' all by itself says so very little about the person, the other beliefs they have, how they come to their beliefs, etc.
So its crazy to think that mere membership into the set of people who share this one -lack- of a belief directly implies participation in anything resembling a 'religion'. However, it does not necessarily directly PRECLUDE participation in a religion, nor 'religious like processes'.
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massagetrade
Joined Thu 02/22/07
Posts: 3113
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| Topic: Is Atheism a religion? |
Tue 07/01/08 01:00 PM |
QUOTE: Actually it's becoming a religion. Plenty of people that believe there is no higher power are finding eachother and agreeing with eachother.
To me, this is one of the most interesting posts in this thread. I strongly agree that there is increasing momentum behind the tendency for atheists to identify with each other and with a certain collection of beliefs. The popularity of some of the atheists authors mentioned in this thread plays a role in this.
This does not make "atheism" a religion. Is 'theism' a religion? No, its simply a position on the existence of something. (Or 'Someone'.) The only essential quality of a theist is that they believe in 'a God', not any particular god of any religion. Theism is not a religion, and atheism is not a religion.
It is, bizarrely, possible to having something very like an "atheist religion" - and the way some readers of some atheists authors march in lock-step with that author's beliefs helps make that possibility more clear to me.
But even if there was an obviously 'atheist religion', it would not make atheism itself a religion.
QUOTE: It's kinda a pathetic topic.
I hope you meant 'opening post' ? I think its an interesting and important topic.
QUOTE: The biggest difference is athiests could care less if its a religion or not.
Or course, my beliefs are what they are, and anything else is just labels. So in a way I don't care what labels people apply as long as they are meaningful and consistent. But when -some- Christians try to claim that 'atheists' are participating in 'a religion', they are mis-using these words in a way that spreads ignorance. And that, I do care about. |
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massagetrade
Joined Thu 02/22/07
Posts: 3113
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| Topic: Is Atheism a religion? |
Tue 07/01/08 12:33 PM |
CreativeSoul: Thanks for your comments!  The ideas you bring forward are in the same family as those which I'd like more atheists to consider. |
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massagetrade
Joined Thu 02/22/07
Posts: 3113
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| Topic: Is Atheism a religion? |
Tue 07/01/08 12:32 PM |
Red wrote:
QUOTE:
He may well think that my seeing only falicy in the place of religions is a belief I'm bound to.
Red, I wasn't thinking of any specific belief of yours. It just seems to me that 'allegiance to a belief' in and of itself is a kind of shackle - it doesn't matter whether that belief is derived from a religion or from another source. So anyone who suggests that atheists are categorically 'more open minded' than theists is propagating a lie. And if they claim that they personally came to atheism due to a 'love of truth', then maybe their love of truth ended after they put on the clothes of atheism - otherwise they would think more carefully about the validity their beliefs.
I feel silly for saying such an obvious thing as the following; but when I was 16 it was not obvious to me at all that: theists, on the whole, might be equally open minded as atheists. I've known many theists who are very capable of sincerely entertaining and examining new ideas, even those very alien to their core beliefs, and many atheist who react with strong emotion and irrational argument to any idea that threatens their beliefs.
Atheists are simply not categorically 'more openminded' than theists. It all depends on the individual.
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massagetrade
Joined Thu 02/22/07
Posts: 3113
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| Topic: Is Atheism a religion? |
Fri 06/27/08 03:49 PM |
Red, I don't disagree with your last post (3:24pm)... it just seems to me that you are putting so much attention on one particular (lets assume) shackle to the human mind.
Its saddens me to see people (not you, I'm speaking in general) who move from theist to atheist, or atheist to theist, or whatever, and -think- to themselves that they are 'more openminded' simply for having done so, without examining the exact nature of their beliefs and how their beliefs influence their thinking.
If we believe that having a 'free mind' is a 'good thing', how do you -know- if your mind is somewhat free? Just because of the set of beliefs you hold allegiance to? or the -way- in which you hold allegiance to those beliefs? Or something else?
Regarding your later paragraph, is that the ONLY thing you admit your are bound to? |
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massagetrade
Joined Thu 02/22/07
Posts: 3113
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| Topic: Is Atheism a religion? |
Fri 06/27/08 02:29 PM |
QUOTE: * Atheists can be happy, balanced, moral, and intellectually fulfilled.
Belushi,
Thanks for posting that excerpt. As a child, when reading definitions, I discovered that my beliefs met the definition of 'atheist'. Then I discovered that many people think 'atheists' were inherently less ethical than other people, which baffled me because I saw (some!) Christians thinking they could continue to do wrong as long as they asked for forgiveness, and atheists generally seemed more thoughtful and premeditative in their choices.
Anyway, its simply absurd to think that atheists are inherently less moral than theists...yet so many theists seem to believe this. |
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massagetrade
Joined Thu 02/22/07
Posts: 3113
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| Topic: Is Atheism a religion? |
Fri 06/27/08 02:20 PM |
QUOTE:
Therefore, our minds are clear, concise and FREE and not beholding to the whims of any mystical supreme fairy tale being
Red, There are SO MANY ways our minds are shackled. Even if it -were- true that atheists have one less shackle than theists.... thats a far cry from having a free mind. What other whims are we beholden to? What other beliefs have we integrated deeply into our worldview to the point where it becomes part of our identity? |
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massagetrade
Joined Thu 02/22/07
Posts: 3113
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| Topic: Is Atheism a religion? |
Fri 06/27/08 02:10 PM |
QUOTE: I don't know any atheists who "believe" God (take your pick, there are plenty) does not exist. All the atheists I know simply do not believe God does exist.
I "believe" that the God Zeus does not exist.
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massagetrade
Joined Thu 02/22/07
Posts: 3113
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| Topic: Is Atheism a religion? |
Fri 06/27/08 02:05 PM |
To answer the first post:
Atheism is NOT a religion.
Many theists use this claim to try to create a line of reasoning based on false premises, to lead to some foregone pro-theist conclusion. Its simply not true.
HOWEVER, some atheists individuals participate in meme-propagation processes nearly identical to those in which theists participate. There are religion-like processes in some atheists communities. This does not make atheism a religion; it makes those individual atheists somewhat 'religious' in their atheism. |
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massagetrade
Joined Thu 02/22/07
Posts: 3113
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| Topic: Is Atheism a religion? |
Fri 06/27/08 02:01 PM |
QUOTE: Atheists are free minded people who obey logic ,
evidence , and proof . They are free and owe nothing to anyone and no one owes them anything .
Religious people are the slaves of their beliefs and depend on what others think for them .
Atheism was not , is not and will not be a religion .
NNnnnoooo!!!!
Please don't tell me you -truly- believe this, as stated.
Just about -everybody- is a slave to some set of beliefs. I don't know anyone over the age of 4 who isn't. MANY atheists do NOT 'obey logic, evidence, and proof'. Many atheists have purely emotional reasons for their position, and are completely irrational in their defense of their position.
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massagetrade
Joined Thu 02/22/07
Posts: 3113
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| Topic: Obama picking up momentum, and |
Fri 06/27/08 01:52 PM |
"she believes Obama is an undercover muslim terrorist"
Oh my! When I'm done crying from laughing, I'll be crying with despair for the voting public's lack of clear thinking. |
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massagetrade
Joined Thu 02/22/07
Posts: 3113
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massagetrade
Joined Thu 02/22/07
Posts: 3113
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massagetrade
Joined Thu 02/22/07
Posts: 3113
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| Topic: OBAMA > for or against? just remember...to each his own > do |
Fri 06/27/08 01:42 PM |
Winx said: I am a Christian and I don't think my beliefs are being banned.
I don't understand why you are saying that.flowerforyou
Lindyy said: Winx, my goodness, on soooooooooooooooooo many other threads Christians are bashed left and right. We recently discussed one of them, just think back.
Lindyy, She said -banned-, not -bashed-. The fact that a collection of individuals each all express their opinions does not, of itself, mean Christian beliefs are being banned. |
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