funches
Joined Sat 12/01/07
Posts: 3745
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| Mon 11/03/08 04:48 PM |
eternal is said to be that which has no beginning or end and void of time ..but once something becomes self aware time then becomes a factor and a beginning is thus created ...
therefore "eternal" can only equate to unawareness and does not equate to "always was"..
anything consider to be "always was" can only exist in the realm of unconsciousness which means to claim that God "always was" would be referring to when God was unaware or achieving consciousness
therefore that God supposedly used the term "I Am" can only express his existence not his eternalism
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Abracadabra
Joined Thu 04/12/07
Posts: 7917
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| Mon 11/03/08 05:10 PM |
Whatever you say big guy. 
I'm not about to argue with someone who looks like the hulk and talks like he's on acid. 
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Abracadabra
Joined Thu 04/12/07
Posts: 7917
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| Mon 11/03/08 06:46 PM |
Ok Funches here's some thoughts for you.
Imagine you're God.
Let's just pretend that you are aware. But all you are aware of is that you exist. You perceive yourself to be existing in a sea of white light. You can "see" the white light not with physical eyeballs, but with your mind's eye. You have no physical body.
All you know is that you are a thinking mind in a sea of white light. That's all you know. Period. You don't even think about this in terms of 'words' because you don't know what language is.
All you know is that you perceive yourself to exist and all you can do is "be" in this sea white light. You "look around" using your mind's eye. All you see no matter what 'direction' you look is the same white light. Maybe you intuitive feel that this white light is '3-dimensional' or maybe you don't. All you know for sure is that this appears to be all that exist. Just your consciousness in a sea of white light.
You begin to ponder the following thought (not in words) but just intuitively. Owl have to type it in here with words because I have no other means of conveying the idea to you,...
You think to yourself intuitively, "What am I"?
As you are thinking your surroundings suddenly go dark. All you see in your mind's eye is blackness. Then you 'remember' having seen the light and as soon as you remember it, it appears. You are sounded by light.
Then you remember the darkness and as soon as you remember it your surroundings go pitch black.
You think, "Let there be light", and there is light.
You think, "Let there be darkness", and there is darkness.
You suddenly realize that you are the one who is control of the light and dark. Whichever you wish to be will be. All you need to do is think of it, and so it is.
Then you get curious and think to yourself (again without words but just intuitively), I wonder if I can think of half light, and half dark. And as soon as you have this thought you see half light and half dark.
Then you start playing with various degrees and patterns and shapes. And you begin to realize that you can create anything you so desire using pure thought alone.
You become so involved with this that you just become totally absorbed with playing with shapes and forms and you discover that anything you can imagine will be so.
Before long you've got a universe going and you imagine being animals within this universe with all sorts of sensations. And you lose yourself in the story as you make it up like someone getting lost in a novel.
Maybe you even realize that you can be more than one animal at a time and bump into yourself but actually see it as being something external to you.
You go on to create a very complex world of complex beings and societies and you get totally lost in this dream.
Eventually at some point you get tired of the dream. It gets old. And you get bored with it. So you decide to forget that you ever did it. And it is so,..
At that moment,...
You perceive yourself to be existing in a sea of white light. You can "see" the white light not with physical eyeballs, but with your mind's eye. You have no physical body.
All you know is that you are a thinking mind in a sea of white light. That's all you know. Period. You don't even think about this in terms of 'words' because you don't know what language is yet.
...
This scenario continues forever.
What would the concept of time even mean if you keep erasing your memory?
If existence is nothing more than your own thoughts, and you erase those thoughts, they no longer exist. And what sense would it even make to say that they had existed in a "past". Who's past? What is a past but a record of what had previously occurred. If there is no longer any record, then there is no longer any past.
Time is meaningless to God.
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funches
Joined Sat 12/01/07
Posts: 3745
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| Tue 11/04/08 02:38 AM |
"Abracadbra" if time is meaningless to God then how long does it takes God to get bored and erase his memory ..
also how long would it take God to once again become conscious of the white light and how long after that would God once again become self aware and them how long would it take God to regain his total memory and realize that he is God and after that how long would it take God to once again get bored
which means "Abracadbra".. according to your senerio time does play a role and as you know the inclusion of time voids any claims of being eternal
as long as God is unaware and lack consciousness he exist in the realm of eternal but the moment God became "aware" then time would begin and God would cease to be eternal
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MorningSong
Joined Mon 02/11/08
Posts: 1365
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| Tue 11/04/08 02:53 AM |
Funches wrote:
".....eternal is said to be that which has no beginning or end and void of time ...."
God is Eternal...God is the beginning and the end.....the Alpha and the Omega..the Everlasting Father....God Almighty..ever was and evermore shall be...
God is I AM.....
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funches
Joined Sat 12/01/07
Posts: 3745
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| Tue 11/04/08 05:03 AM |
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"MorningSong" ..God's own words shows that he is not eternal ..God signified that he is the "beginning" and the "end" ..neither can be acheived without the factor of time ..and time always negate the claim of eternalism
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MorningSong
Joined Mon 02/11/08
Posts: 1365
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| Tue 11/04/08 02:50 PM |
Funches.....
God exists in ETERNITY...
Not in TIME....
Time is limited to our " earth time" only....
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Edited by MorningSong on Tue 11/04/08 02:54 PM
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